Sobriety Interview With Patrick Meninga Of The Spiritual River Website

I am honored to have interviewed Patrick Meninga of The Spiritual River Website about his sobriety journey. Lap it up people!

· How long have you been sober?

My clean date is on January first, 2001. So I have over 8 and half years of continuous sobriety now.

· How many times had you attempted sobriety before finally nailing it?

I had tried to get sober twice before. Once I went to a local rehab and my intention was to quit drinking but to keep using other drugs (man, was I naive at the time!). Of course that did not work. Then other time I went to Hazelden in Minnesota after a family intervention. I was actually in there during Christmas and when it turned Y2K. I was still pretty mixed up at that point and things did not turn out well then either. I stayed for 28 days though and it was a real opportunity for me. But it was not to be. I stayed out using for another year and then I finally got sober at the start of 2001.

· Did your friends and family try to convince you of giving up alcohol before you made the decision?

Absolutely. Even my friends that I drank and did drugs with tried to encourage me to quit. They wanted better things for me, even my drinking buddies did. I was my own worst enemy.

· Why do you think some people reach the point of complete surrender and manage to give up alcohol and others do not?

Gosh that is a tough question. I work in a treatment center, and you cannot believe how many people keep coming back after having relapsed, over and over again. It is really sad in some cases.

On the one hand, I would like to take credit and say that I am sober today because I am somehow better than those who relapse. But I understand now that this is not reality, and that I am simply blessed. I was chosen to be sober I think, because when I was still drinking, I wanted to ride a wave of drugs and alcohol ride into my early grave. That plan was just fine by me. Something….intervened. I do not know if that is the truth but it is the best explanation I have for what turned me around. That or the love of my family finally broke through to me. But I had that all along and it was never enough to make me stop self medicating, so that does not seem right either.

Nope, it was higher powered for sure.

· What do you think are the 3 most important things a newly sober person can consider to ensure that they maintain sobriety?

Well I have a personally philosophy of recovery that has some ideas in it, such as:

1) Pursue holistic and personal growth

2) Caring for self (build self esteem through action and goal setting).

3) Networking with others in recovery

But quite honestly I am still refining that philosophy as I see what works in my life and the lives of those around me.

I used to think that overwhelming force was a key component of success in recovery, because long term treatment is what finally worked for me (I lived in treatment for 20 months when I got sober). But it fails for so many people, and the success rate of long term treatment is similar to that of short term residential treatment. So my ideas change and evolve over time based on the trends that I am seeing, but also based on what has worked for me.

Addiction and recovery is so far from being “solved” that it is a really messy industry right now. Trying to help people is hard. Putting up decent success rates is even harder. No one is an expert at helping alcoholics (not if you look at their success rates they achieve!).

So I guess, to answer the question, my 3 most important things for someone are:

1) Make a decision to stop drinking at a really deep level (true surrender. Not doing it for others. No will left to chase pleasure or happiness in the bottle. No enthusiasm left in drinking).

2) Get excited about the potential of a life lived sober (find passion and purpose in recovery. Meaning. A way to connect or help others is probably vital.).

3) The first 2 things are enough. The first is giving up the drinking, and the second thing is embracing a positive life. This is all that is necessary. The rest is details (unfortunately there are a lot of them!).

· As you see it, what are the most common reasons for people failing at sobriety?

Well if you look at my answer above about what is really critical for success in recovery, you can see what will lead to failure. People fail in recovery for 2 reasons:

1) Not really surrendering to their disease (they have reservations about drinking or using later on, or they are not really “finished” with their drinking).

2) They do not embrace recovery. They do not create an awesome new life for themselves. They get bored, or angered, or frustrated, or whatever. The success in recovery comes from building up a positive new life. It is an act of creation. Those who fail to create will slide back into their old ways and end up relapsing.

· Anti-depressants? Yes or No

Well I would say that this comes down to the individual and that they should consult with their doctor. I will never fault an addict or an alcoholic for taking non-narcotic, non-addictive medications. Most anti-depressants fit that bill. Now there are some anxiety medications and some other narcotic medications that I think constitute a relapse, but again, that really should be a decision between the patient and the doctor. I say, if you need anti-depressants to have a good life, you should take them. Just my opinion of course….

· Therapy? Yes or No

Therapy is a tool. It cannot work magic on someone who has not really surrendered. I went to counselors and therapists for a while when I had not intention of quitting drinking. This was worthless. If you are in recovery and pushing to create a new life for yourself, then therapy can be huge. It depends on the person of course. Some really do well with therapy, while others can excel in recovery using other tools.

· A.A? Yes or No

Just like therapy, AA is another tool. It is one solution. But it is not the only path to recovery. Certainly it has helped many people. But the majority who try AA fail. In fact, the data from AA census data shows that 90 percent of those who try AA will leave within a year and never return. This is evidenced by the now famous “Comments on A.A.’s Triennial Surveys,” figure C-1, which represents a ton of data that spans 12 years.

So AA might very well help many people. But the AA census data shows that it is losing 90 percent of all newcomers, and that they do not return. Clearly, there is a need for alternatives. There is a need for more solutions….for other holistic approaches.

I do not claim to have all the answers, but any solution that is losing 90 percent right off the top could stand to have some fresh ideas in the field.

· In an ideal world, what does the future of alcohol recovery look like to you?

A huge question, I hope to write a book about this practically! But seriously, my vision of recovery is one of holistic health and personal growth.  It is less about the social and networking aspects of recovery that dominate the industry these days (mostly via 12 step groups) and more about personal empowerment, purposeful living, goal setting, etc. I don’t want to bash existing programs, but on the other hand, I see them doing so poorly for the vast majority of alcoholics. I think we can do better on at least a couple of different levels.

What would happen if you threw unlimited funding at the recovery industry? What kind of research would this lead to and what kind of solutions could we expect? My vision is that it goes far beyond the typical residential treatment program or even most long term recovery programs. I’m talking about a holistic approach that deals in every aspect of a person’s life. Perhaps the key will one day be some sort of unique screening, or a qualifier that will insure that those who enter recovery are more likely at the point of surrender that will get them decent results. Right now we see a thousand people come into treatment for alcoholism, and at least 950 have taken another drink within the first year. There has to be a better solution.

· How many people do you know that have quit drinking and stayed sober longer than 1 year?

(Laughs out loud for a second) That is a depressing question right there! I was in a unique position where I left residential treatment and went straight into a long term treatment center where I lived for 20 months. The place housed 12 guys and I was one of them. I probably saw about 30 different people come through there, even though it was supposed to be a 6 month to 2 year program (average stay was less than 6 months I figure).

Anyway, that was 8 years ago when I was living there, and out of those 30 or so guys, I count me and one other person who are still sober today. Heck, 4 of those guys are now dead. I went to 1 of their funerals. A lot those people continue to go in and out of rehab, in and out of long term, and so on.

I also know a handful of people in the fellowships (of AA and NA) that have multiple years clean, and they continue to frequent the meetings and they come to my treatment center where I work and bring meetings in to the residents there. So I see them and I see that it does work for some. But even some of those people have relapsed (the meeting chair people). So obviously no one is immune.

I went to lots of meetings my first year of sobriety and I could go back to the big AA club in town and find at least 20 people that I “know” who have a year sober or more. But I have been to about 5 meetings in the last 5 years, so that is not really my gig any more. I have found other avenues.

And, to be honest, most of my close friends in recovery have not done real well. Most have either died or relapsed, or both. One is still sober today (the one who stayed sober that I met in long term treatment 8 years ago).

· Do you think anyone could have done something to prevent you from going down the addiction path?

Nope. I was born an addict. I am positive of it.

I know this because I was hooked from the very first time I tried a drug. And I had been searching for addiction for a long time before I found it. I wish I had found it sooner; this may have saved me a lot of years of pain. Gotten it over with quicker.

The first time I took a drink or a drug in my life, I said out loud, literally “This is what I was meant to do. I will keep doing this until the day I die.” Of course, we all know how long the fun really lasted…..

· What do you see in your future?

Family, fun times, traveling. Starting projects in recovery. Starting a treatment center some day. Something high end, holistic, etc. Resort-like even.

But simply connecting with recovering addicts, in just about any way, is almost enough. I am pushing to do a bit more though….still finding the path. Still learning to create.

· Do you have any role models?

My family has always set a great example for me. But I look up to some big thinkers in marketing like Seth Godin and Tim Ferris who push people to try and do great things in the business world. Does this translate at all into recovery? Of course it does….on at least some level. Success, excellence, achievement…..these things can come to us in a number of different ways.

For example, I feel like my running has been significant in my recovery from addiction. Is running my whole program? Of course not. Would I recommend that a newcomer start jogging or running every day? No, that is missing the point as well. It’s not the running itself that benefits my recovery so much….it is the achievement, the push to do more, to go farther, to excel in something and build self esteem by doing so. That’s what makes a holistic approach so important….because it is both flexible and powerful. You can take a section of your life, and….enhance it. You can grow in focused ways. Deliberate ways.

Role models….could Tiger Woods teach a person how to be sober and live a life of recovery? Absolutely. If you can incorporate the same level of drive, the same positive energy in your life, what would stop you from creating the life you really want to achieve? If you can look up to your heroes and say “I want to achieve that kind of greatness,” then you have all the inspiration that you need.

Who inspires you to be the best person you can be? Who inspires you to create or do great things? This is how I define role models.

Those marketing gurus that I mentioned…..they are my inspiration for my recovery website, and for the work I do in creating more recovery connections. The goal is not to market meaningless drivel and make money for the sake of money, but to create something of meaning, live with purpose, and make a powerful connection with the world while doing so. If you read Godin or Ferris, you will see that they are both in line with these values. They are both creators, on almost every level.

· Do you regret your alcoholism?

No. Not at all. If I had not gone through it, I would probably have to go through it later. Better to have learned this difficult lesson already than to have to face it later on.

But even beyond that, alcoholism was a growth experience for me. It broke me down to a level where I could really abandon my “self” and slowly start to reconnect with a higher power in a new way. I discarded some old ideas that did not work for me and started exploring new beliefs, new mindsets, and a new spirituality. I actually read the New Testament since I got sober (something I had never done before). I also read quite a few books on Taoism and Zen Buddhism. I am not a bible thumper, but I have found a path that works for me. And, I would not be on this spiritual path without my alcoholism.

· Why do you think alcoholics should get sober knowing that the success rate is so low and the journey is so difficult?

The success rates in recovery really are poor, but anyone can have recovery if they really want it. I know that sounds cliche, but seriously, anyone has the capability to achieve the creative life in recovery if they really want it. We can all focus. Any alcoholic can focus. I know they can because I used to do so with raw determination, even when I was drunk. Heck, because I was drunk. The drive, the passion, the ability to focus is there. I think it is there for everyone. Any alcoholic can potentially achieve this high level of focus and use it to create a positive life without drinking. It can happen. I know it does not happen in most cases, but the potential exists there for people. For anyone.

The thing is, they have to really want it, and put in the leg work to get there. Lots of focus. Overwhelming force. Dedication. Whatever they do to stay sober, they have to do a lot of it. For a long time. And keep doing stuff to actively stay sober. It is a long, hard, challenging road. Lots of focus.

But anyone can do this stuff. Anyone can create a life of recovery. Because there are so many paths to take. So many passions that can fuel the creative life. You don’t have to be a website author and an avid runner. Heck, you can be all about meditation and archery for all I care. Or you can volunteer at the soup kitchen and rescue abandoned cats or something. It doesn’t matter.  It’s not the stuff you do, it’s the passion you do it with.  Find your passion and start living with purpose. Find a way to help people in a way that is meaningful to you and run with it. This is the creative life. This is the path to a recovery that works and grows.

· What are your favorite books?

Well of course you have the marketing gurus I talked about above, Seth Godin and Tim Ferris. They are both bestselling authors, but they also have blogs that I follow. I have read a lot of mainstream fiction too, and a lot of books about spirituality and so on. I like reading (and writing) in general.

But my favorite books are those that have great ideas in them. Things that can spark new creation, new action. I guess that is why I am drawn to fresh, award-winning bestsellers, written by the best marketers in the world.

· What do you do for fun?

Work directly with clients in a treatment center full time (sort of fun, sort of crazy!).

Play golf. (a growing passion. In nice weather on the right course, walking a nine is like a moving meditation almost….)

Spend time with family (playing with my niece and nephew is a blast!)

Run. (I used to hate running, like normal people.)

Create stuff. (Mostly stuff in the online world…especially connections with others in recovery and new ideas about recovery).

To see more ideas about non traditional recovery, visit The Spiritual River.

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Tags: Addictions Treatment, Alcohol Abuse Recovery, Alcohol Treatment, Getting Sober, How To Stop Drinking, Long Term Sobriety, My Sobriety, Sobriety Interview, Sobriety Interview With Patrick Meninga Of The Spiritual River Website, Spiritual River